Game Drama

[Anders]

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendID=196492776

That's a post I made in my MySpace blog. It's about drama and stuff found in online games. What do people think about this issue?

[Artagus]

Ahhh the safety of being in front of a computer.

Drama - A situation or succession of events in real life having the dramatic progression or emotional effect . Actually had to look this up, I'm not that smart.

It seems and has always been and over-response (if thats even a word) to everything and anything that has upset ones “modus operandi”. This is true even in games but can be carried to a higher level. In real life exchanges like this would escalate to a brawl. There are things that can get me upset to be verbal but only to a point. After all, once a point of view has been mentioned whats the point of re-visiting it.

It is a shame there are individuals that love to “chew” on situations like this to the point of frothing at the mouth. I can understand being upset and speaking your mind concerning it, but there is a time to be done with it and move on.

This is just my opinion but I do agree that stuff like this gets excessive and unnecessary. It gets so abrasive after awhile it can make you sick.

I guess it will always be that way.

Good read also, Anders :)

[Anders]

Thanks Art :)

I agree though, but it's not just situations like this people go nuts over. I mean, the hatred a lot of people had at some of the things surrounding Vanguard is another good example, same with the Star Wars: Galaxies NGE and CU. I understand that a situation can be upsetting, and you know, everyone has a right to be upset and angry.

But there is a right way and a wrong way to go about it.

I guarantee you people that behave this way on the interweb would never do so in a real-life environment. Can you imagine if I replied to my boss this way? I'd probably be asked to leave and never come back. I guess it's another one of those things, because the Internet makes me anonymous, I can do what I want!

Completely inappropriate line of thinking, in my opinion.

[Vincent]

Thanks Art :)

I agree though, but it's not just situations like this people go nuts over. I mean, the hatred a lot of people had at some of the things surrounding Vanguard is another good example, same with the Star Wars: Galaxies NGE and CU. I understand that a situation can be upsetting, and you know, everyone has a right to be upset and angry.

But there is a right way and a wrong way to go about it.

I guarantee you people that behave this way on the interweb would never do so in a real-life environment. Can you imagine if I replied to my boss this way? I'd probably be asked to leave and never come back. I guess it's another one of those things, because the Internet makes me anonymous, I can do what I want!

Completely inappropriate line of thinking, in my opinion.


I agree, and Drama like this is one of the biggest reasons I quit World of Warcraft. It runs rampent in that game because of the sheer size of the playerbase, and the average age of that playerbase.

I never once in my life had to deal with people that get so upset but the smallest thing, and want to make huge deals about it then when I started to lead a guild on WoW. Every small thing that ment next to nothing, turned into a HUGE dramafest, and for no reason. And the two biggest causes for this (IN MY EXPERIANCES) have been female players and loot. If a player doesn't get an item, for whatever reason, and he/she feels intitled to it, they will have a fit. Even if somone with a higher amount of Raid Points got the item, the person still makes a big deal about it, because somehow, they think they deserve it more then someone else.. and then they continue on the point, even after being told to stop (thus create and scene and createing drama).

Now another example of Drama I had to deal with: There was a rather popular female player in my guild, this person was a terrible healer, but due to the fact that she played on being a female (which is another something I REALLY hate in MMOs) she had a ton of guy friends that would bend over backwards for her whenever asked in hopes of <whatever>. Now, if they female player decided something was wrong in the guild, or that she was upset at an officer for something (normally pertaining to either loot, or being told she needs to improve her play) she would go and tell her little guy friends and then they would make a big scene for her, pretending to be the "good guys". That type of Drama, is eventually what made me Quit WoW :P.

And to compair. I played Everquest for about 6 years, and I played WoW for about 2 years. In my time leading a raiding guild in Everquest I had to deal with 2 Drama Issues. In my time leading a raiding guild in WoW I had to deal with at least 15 Random Drama events, that were very frustrating and normally ended in me kicking people from or people leaving my guild.

Its safe to say my time as a raid leader in Everquest was alot more enjoyable then WoW :P.

Now I pretty much try to stay quite in whatever game I play, even while playing WoW I was playing some other MMOs on the side when I got bored, and I had learned to just not talk to certain people because of not wanting to deal with stupidity.

Luckily, I haven't had to deal with much Drama in Vanguard :P, perks of playing a game with not so many people, and generally an older and more mature community.

[Anders]

Wow Vincent, nice post. Going to reply to some stuff here.

Every small thing that ment next to nothing, turned into a HUGE dramafest, and for no reason. And the two biggest causes for this (IN MY EXPERIANCES) have been female players and loot. If a player doesn't get an item, for whatever reason, and he/she feels intitled to it, they will have a fit. Even if somone with a higher amount of Raid Points got the item, the person still makes a big deal about it, because somehow, they think they deserve it more then someone else.. and then they continue on the point, even after being told to stop (thus create and scene and createing drama).

You know, I didn't want to say it in my original posting, but females are a huge source of drama. And the absolute worst bracket for this: Single, Middle-Aged (35-50) Females. Wow, it's like they have nothing better to do than sit around and stir pots in guilds. Got to the point that I hated it that in the one guild I led, I prohibited them from joining.

Another source of drama, and I'm sure I'll get hated on, are the trannies. Having played on an RP server in WoW, there are more than you think, and for some reason they feel the need to do a few things:

a) Announce to everyone who and how they are.
b) Become overly dramatic over every big decision.
c) Take offense to everything.

Now, I don't discriminate against any group of people, not my way, but I do withold the right to allow you to enter MY guild if you fit certain criteria. When I set up my next guild for whenever, I'm going to be clear on here's what I do not want, and why. I don't like playing these games with people that have chips on their shoulder, it makes the game more stressful and irritating and when I'm spending $15 a month, I want to have fun with other people who want to have fun.

Now another example of Drama I had to deal with: There was a rather popular female player in my guild, this person was a terrible healer, but due to the fact that she played on being a female (which is another something I REALLY hate in MMOs) she had a ton of guy friends that would bend over backwards for her whenever asked in hopes of <whatever>. Now, if they female player decided something was wrong in the guild, or that she was upset at an officer for something (normally pertaining to either loot, or being told she needs to improve her play) she would go and tell her little guy friends and then they would make a big scene for her, pretending to be the "good guys". That type of Drama, is eventually what made me Quit WoW :P.

See, I'd chalk that up to them being immature and wanting to get attention from a girl, something they probably haven't had at school or whatever. :P Another reason my future guild will be 18+ only. Sure, there are mature minors, but I don't want to have to judge each and every minor playing a video game about their maturity levels. Besides, not to sound mean but, she probably wasn't even that hot. :P No telling what they were trying to defend, hehehe.

And to compair. I played Everquest for about 6 years, and I played WoW for about 2 years. In my time leading a raiding guild in Everquest I had to deal with 2 Drama Issues. In my time leading a raiding guild in WoW I had to deal with at least 15 Random Drama events, that were very frustrating and normally ended in me kicking people from or people leaving my guild.

Its safe to say my time as a raid leader in Everquest was alot more enjoyable then WoW :P.

Yeah, I agree. Plus, people in WoW need supervision 24/7. I made a post on my guild forums that I had to spend a few days away from game to be with my grandfather who was dealing with some health issues, and when I got back (3 days later, mind you) the guild had basically fallen apart. To be honest, I was glad, I was tired of dealing with the drama. After that I decided never to deal with guild leading in WoW again.

Note: I want to further clarify that my judgment of certain groups of people is not based on RL experiences, as I do not have a problem with anyone as long as they don't force me to believe a certain way, but I will not, repeat: WILL NOT, deal with people who have a chip on their shoulder when I am playing a game to enjoy my time away from RL and work. I can deal with work stress, I get paid to. I don't get paid to hear people bitch about how miserable their existance is over ventrilo and guild chat. I am not a psychiatrist. :P

[gine]

From my experience in WoW pre-BC, the best time I had with my guild at the time was when we had no aim of running end-game raids. Just the normal instances were quite entertaining and the company was great. But when it tried to shift to a raiding mind set too many old friends just weren't up to the task. No fault of them in my opinion, just how it is. Playtime mainly. The more "hard-core", well after a while they got tried of not progressing so they change guilds to raid. That was the drama. Different conflicting goals, no jerks, idiots, or drama queens, but still drama.

Honestly, the guild dynamic is a very interesting topic. What makes a good guild is one that lasts, I'm not too sure there are many of those.

I also have to add that leadership in guilds are the ones to praise or fault. No matter how hated or loved the leadership is, it has no bearing on if they are effective or not. Of course how they handle problems is the only way to judge how effective they are.

[Annen]

hehehe...

I think I still play WoW because the drama can be entertaining. In fact.. just the other day...

A rogue was trying to tell our group what to do. We were low levels for the instance, including me (paladin) but I didnt care much. We weren't noobs, despite her constant complaining. At one point, she had to go AFK, and told us not to pull, many many times..

I pulled two mobs.

What else was I going to do?! Of course we killed them just fine, but then another room added on us (silly priest) and killed everyone, including the afk rogue.

By that point some of the instance had respawned, so we started re-clearing it. When she came back she was still on the ground complaining to us.. then a conversation occured like this:

Rogue: "When you're clearing dont kill everything, just enough to get by"
Me: "So... When I get to the courtyard I should run around the outside, agro every mob, then run to the middle and do /dance??"
Rogue: "Nooooo...."
Me: "I'm glad we're in agreement!"

...

She finally turned ghost and joined us, just when we were about to hit the courtyard. I told the group to stay back..

I ran around the perimeter, then to the center. The group attempted to kill 1 or 2, but eventually agroed all of them. I jumped onto the statue in the middle and danced... poped shield.. and danced more... I was the only one left.

The group disbanded, the rogue called me a stupid #$@hole.

A minute later I got tells from my other groupmates telling me that they loved me and added me to friends.

I love being loved.

[Vincent]

hehehe...

I think I still play WoW because the drama can be entertaining. In fact.. just the other day...

A rogue was trying to tell our group what to do. We were low levels for the instance, including me (paladin) but I didnt care much. We weren't noobs, despite her constant complaining. At one point, she had to go AFK, and told us not to pull, many many times..

I pulled two mobs.

What else was I going to do?! Of course we killed them just fine, but then another room added on us (silly priest) and killed everyone, including the afk rogue.

By that point some of the instance had respawned, so we started re-clearing it. When she came back she was still on the ground complaining to us.. then a conversation occured like this:

Rogue: "When you're clearing dont kill everything, just enough to get by"
Me: "So... When I get to the courtyard I should run around the outside, agro every mob, then run to the middle and do /dance??"
Rogue: "Nooooo...."
Me: "I'm glad we're in agreement!"

...

She finally turned ghost and joined us, just when we were about to hit the courtyard. I told the group to stay back..

I ran around the perimeter, then to the center. The group attempted to kill 1 or 2, but eventually agroed all of them. I jumped onto the statue in the middle and danced... poped shield.. and danced more... I was the only one left.

The group disbanded, the rogue called me a stupid #$@hole.

A minute later I got tells from my other groupmates telling me that they loved me and added me to friends.

I love being loved.

lol, Nice ;)

[Annen]

Yeah, my brother and I ran a eq1 guild. It was all happy until we started raiding stuff.. then everyone kept going "gimmie gimmie gimmie" and got mad when we didnt.

I guess we didnt have any female problems.. because I was the only real female.. lol.

We tried lots of ways to combat the loot frenzy. I think the best solution was to determine who would get the loot before we even set out, and discuss it with the entire guild. I've been in many guilds where there's an "officer chat" when the mob dropped, and they would decide who got the loot.. it leaves out alot of people and makes 'em pretty mad.

We went to the extent of inspecting everyone and writing down what they had, then went by a need before greed system, and trying to put people like "main tank for all raids" first. But also realizing that if the mt would gain 10 more hp, and the alt tank would gain 500 hp.. the alt would probably get the item.. lol.

Also, eq1 was a much harder game back in the day. Most of the noobie 12 year olds would get filtered out before they hit 30. On WoW you can be a noobie at 70. lol.

And on WoW.. whenever I join a guild, unless it's made by a friend, it dies 1 week after I join. I think I'm cursed! Although some day I think I'd like to have my own guild.

On Vanguard we had a guild too, made up with RL friends.. it was called Ater Monstrum.. 11 people and we were on the top 5 list for guild kills! We were reeeally enthusiastic about it the first month, then the game started to sadden us and most drifted away.. I think I was one of the last people trying to make it work, but it dissolved anyway :(

[Vincent]

Yeah, my brother and I ran a eq1 guild. It was all happy until we started raiding stuff.. then everyone kept going "gimmie gimmie gimmie" and got mad when we didnt.

I guess we didnt have any female problems.. because I was the only real female.. lol.

We tried lots of ways to combat the loot frenzy. I think the best solution was to determine who would get the loot before we even set out, and discuss it with the entire guild. I've been in many guilds where there's an "officer chat" when the mob dropped, and they would decide who got the loot.. it leaves out alot of people and makes 'em pretty mad.

We went to the extent of inspecting everyone and writing down what they had, then went by a need before greed system, and trying to put people like "main tank for all raids" first. But also realizing that if the mt would gain 10 more hp, and the alt tank would gain 500 hp.. the alt would probably get the item.. lol.

Also, eq1 was a much harder game back in the day. Most of the noobie 12 year olds would get filtered out before they hit 30. On WoW you can be a noobie at 70. lol.

And on WoW.. whenever I join a guild, unless it's made by a friend, it dies 1 week after I join. I think I'm cursed! Although some day I think I'd like to have my own guild.

On Vanguard we had a guild too, made up with RL friends.. it was called Ater Monstrum.. 11 people and we were on the top 5 list for guild kills! We were reeeally enthusiastic about it the first month, then the game started to sadden us and most drifted away.. I think I was one of the last people trying to make it work, but it dissolved anyway :(

Furor loot system is probably a huge drama sink if it isn't managed perfectly lol. I've seen it crush things.

[Vorph]

Furor loot system is probably a huge drama sink if it isn't managed perfectly lol. I've seen it crush things.

Yea, there's basically two requirements for that loot system: you need to make the right decision the vast majority of the time, and when you do screw up you need to be the sort of person that no one will dare complain to. I never really saw any drama over loot at all in FoH in either EQ or WoW.

In my EQ guild prior to moving to Veeshan where loot was decided by myself and a few other officers, all of the things mentioned above were a problem at one time or another, the worst being the RL female 'drama queen and her minions' effect.

Even with the potential for causing trouble though, I will never play any game with a guild that uses any other kind of loot system.

[Vincent]

Yea, there's basically two requirements for that loot system: you need to make the right decision the vast majority of the time, and when you do screw up you need to be the sort of person that no one will dare complain to. I never really saw any drama over loot at all in FoH in either EQ or WoW.

In my EQ guild prior to moving to Veeshan where loot was decided by myself and a few other officers, all of the things mentioned above were a problem at one time or another, the worst being the RL female 'drama queen and her minions' effect.

Even with the potential for causing trouble though, I will never play any game with a guild that uses any other kind of loot system.

Personally, I've found the best type of loot system is the point based system, with teirs of % participation. Meaning that say, someone with 80%+ Raiding attendance wants an item and only has 15 points, but someone with 45% Raiding attendance wants an item and he has 24 points. The person with the 80%+ would get the item, based on being in a higher Teir of Raid Attendance. (1%-40% was Teir 1 40%-60% Teir 2 60%-80% Teir 3 and 80%-100% Teir 4).

And yea, more proof of the "RL Female Drama Queen and her Minions" Drama type :P.

[Anders]

Good responses so far in this thread. :)

Yeah, loot systems get very icky. My basic rule of thumb was this: If you didn't like it, leave. Sorry but screw that nonsense. I'm not going to deal with people bitching and moaning.

Call me old fashioned but here is my philosophy:

The guild is a team.

When one member receives something that betters his performance, the entire team gets a boost to performance. This is something everyone should be happy about. This makes raiding a bit easier each time more loot drops and more people begin to get 'geared out.'

I think it is a foreign concept to most people though.

[Annen]

Call me old fashioned but here is my philosophy:

The guild is a team.

When one member receives something that betters his performance, the entire team gets a boost to performance. This is something everyone should be happy about. This makes raiding a bit easier each time more loot drops and more people begin to get 'geared out.'

I think it is a foreign concept to most people though.

EXAAAAACTLY! I think it helped that alot of people in our eq guild understood that, and if they didnt they either left because they didnt get things, or they would ninja loot something and leave and/or get kicked out. (then we would just go back the next day and get it for the real owner anyway)

As a cleric, I really didnt mind if another got more mana.. hell, it helped me out a lot more than me having a few extra points!

[gine]

I think the team mentality is the key to a great raiding guild. But I don't think many people think of a guild that way, sadly. The trouble players always think that they are better than everyone else, and it shows often enough. Far too many people that are like that. And it really only takes one jerk to make it no longer fun to play.

[Anders]

EXAAAAACTLY! I think it helped that alot of people in our eq guild understood that, and if they didnt they either left because they didnt get things, or they would ninja loot something and leave and/or get kicked out. (then we would just go back the next day and get it for the real owner anyway)

As a cleric, I really didnt mind if another got more mana.. hell, it helped me out a lot more than me having a few extra points!

Well yeah, exactly. You getting 20 mana more from a flashy new item, or Cleric2 getting 405 mana from that item, and maybe a few hp and whatnot. What helps people out more?

Bah, I swear, too many fools play MMOs these days. :P

[Annen]

haha.. what games are you all playing? we should rule the world! or many worlds. it is clear that we are far superior to all other gamers O.o;

Until something shiney drops. then its mine.. ALL MINE!

...kidding, kidding!

[Anders]

I don't play anything right now. WoW pisses me off. I can't get into Vanguard since my comp can't run it for longer than like 30m at a time :( LotRO is okay, but I got bored of that after the free month, so basically I'm stuck waiting on Warhammer.

So, I guess from now until then I'll try to actually work hard at my RL job and earn as many brownie points until then so I can cash them in later :P

[Vincent]

I don't play anything right now. WoW pisses me off. I can't get into Vanguard since my comp can't run it for longer than like 30m at a time :( LotRO is okay, but I got bored of that after the free month, so basically I'm stuck waiting on Warhammer.

So, I guess from now until then I'll try to actually work hard at my RL job and earn as many brownie points until then so I can cash them in later :P

Thats about how I am right now :P nothing really out now I want to play, and nothing to do until a new MMO comes out I'm willing to play :P.

Well, there are betas hehe.

[Anders]

Bah, Betas. I remember being excited to go into the Vanguard beta, but felt disappointment when dealing with the performance issues. :( Still bought the game to see what they could do with the live environment for about a month, but again saw no real improvements.

So I take new MMOs with a grain of salt these days.

I am excited for Warhammer, but dunno how good it'll end up being. I'm trying to keep myself underhyped for it. ;p

[coldacid]

as far as guild drama i always liked the feature /gkick :P. but on a serious note i understand the age difference, espacilly in wow. nothing like joining a group with a kid that acts worse than a buligerant drunk. that is why i always found it easyer when starting a guild with a minimum age limit, usally 20 and older. that seems to help then you can just thin out the rest of the bad seeds. as far as warhammer granted i am not in the states and i cant surf the internet all day. to me it looks like another wow. the graphics esspacially. very cartoonish. i think it will just pull the kid players away from wow over to there. also seems to lack core mmo detail. that is one reason i quite wow and moved on. i am still waiting for the game that can out do uo.